New Beginnings

Yeah I knew something like this was going to happen.

If whatever you want to do works, great. But putting the same faces in charge time and time again paints a bad picture on the whole thing. But I know that my opinion isn't really valued here so that's all I have to comment on it.

is neo-tnb going to remain primarily based in gmod for its roleplay endeavors? are there other alternatives you are considering? (i.e. GTAV, NWN, both known for high quality and high-population roleplay servers)

what does the community overhaul entail beyond a change in name? will the forums, discords, et al, still be accessible in archive form, or are you going for tabula rasa?

what of funding? for the past several years tnb has held together more or less because of 2 people, bennet and gang. what can you say about what yall have planned for donations and such?

is there a new script being talked about, or considered?

is there a possibility of a willard-esque development team, so we arent reliant on a single person (or at best, a single person and one other person who kind of helps)? seen many times where when a dev leaves, things grind to a halt.

what is the policy for neo-tnb on previous community bans? (not those for creep groomers obviously)

will the name change be total, or it will it try to keep the acronym if possible?

three main elements of culture change are touched upon: change in the organization/picking of admins; change in server projects; and moderation. can you expand on this if possible?

what are the main culturally toxic traits of tnb, in your opinions?

maybe we should edit the original post and put the important stuff at the beginning before the hopeful prose. "WE ARE NOT ENDING SERIOUS RP, SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION" would be nice.

but also

90% of all server admins quit overhauling the server right before succeeding

Johnston said:

what are the main culturally toxic traits of tnb, in your opinions?

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Well for starters as someone who joined here circa 2015 it was pretty routine to vilify and spread rumors about all other RP communities to scare people from trying them out. Still is to some effect. Thought of this since I read this:

Cindy said:

TnB is pretty unanimously considered the garbage disposal of serious roleplay. Our reputation is in the dirt and it directly impacts our player retention as well as our ability to commit to other projects by acquiring new developers. No amount of putting a rug over the stain is going to cut it this time.

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It's no wonder tnb has a shit reputation... That among other issues.

Referencing DarkRP 100 times in your blindside forum post is a PR team failure. You immediately turned people off the idea, I had to re-read the post 3 times to make sure I wasn't missing something or my reading comprehension fell out.

Even if you have amazing plans laid out for the future, you blind sided your own admin team, your moderators and most importantly the rest of the community who feels unheard about these changes. A soft launch or even a discussion with the admin team or hard hitting community heads would of cleared up so much of this.

Not only that, 2 people who have removed themselves from this community for over a year in cindyslug 's case and a year in skylion 's case and were deeply involved in other serious roleplay community's. Why is bringing back old faces to try and fix the same old problems we faced when they were leaders a good change of pace? That's nonsensical. Inviting back weimar republic leadership after WW2 type shit.

Why has every feedback thread been met with "We're working on it" then suddenly the community is slapped with this announcement.

The main point is YOU SILENCED THE COMMUNITY AND RUINED ANY TRUST IN THE LEADERSHIP TEAM. Banning people for shit posting about something that is very clearly a shock to them and they reacted SHOCKED too is nonsense and you know it.

E; locking the thread is bullshit. You're the administration team, moderate the fucking chat.

i wasn't kidding when i posted what would dave brown think about how you're butchering his work

I was optimistic about this after having things explained to me by Sky and Gang. And I understand where you guys are coming from with all of this, especially in regards to 'cleaning out the stains' that TnB is, let's admit, covered with. But I'm gonna be honest, after reading the posts in this thread I'm slowly starting to 180 on that optimism.

Reading the posts in this thread has been eye-opening to say the least. Like... why are senior staff members baffled by this and speaking out against it? Why wasn't a decision this huge discussed with the whole community first? Why just drop this out of nowhere instead of doing some sort of soft-launch? I don't know how you guys didn't anticipate a response like this.

I don't think THE SERVER IS DEAD ABANDON SHIP IT'S ALL OVER or anything. I just don't get why you guys would look at a 20+ page thread of people asking for more communication and transparency and then... do this.

I feel like this sort of change or plan or concept or whatever could be a positive thing in the long run. But I think that happening would need to involve... well... the community. Transparency. Communication. The thing we had a whole feedback-turned-CCC thread about? Maybe talking to more than like, 5 people about your plans that literally shake the foundations of the community?

I'm sure you guys have good intentions. But I'm gonna be honest, this is a really rough start.

I've not been involved with the community at all so my input is likely not as important as some of the long-standing members here, but I agree with a few points that have been brought up:

• Making drastic identity-altering changes like this should most definitely include the community in the decision-making stage. You can always not do that of course, but criticism and negative feedback should not come as a surprise if you don't. This isn't some random AAA game where you have to satisfy the shareholders; TnB, as with any other 'server' on Garry's Mod, would be nothing without its community.
• I have mixed thoughts about ditching the name. I understand the desire to move on, turn a new page and put the past behind you, but in a large name known to thousands of people with a rich history, dropping it just seems like the wrong thing to do. It's like if Steam suddenly rebranded. That would feel so weird.
• If there were problematic individuals in the past who caused internal discord in the community, you really should not be bringing them back, especially not in an influential position such as community leadership. To reiterate, I am not that deeply involved with TnB much at all, so I don't know whether any of the claims made are valid, or if they're just baseless attacks on character, but my point stands - you people know best on this point.
• Locking a thread like this is probably the worst thing you could do at this point; regardless of how many shitposts or baseless comments with little to no actual constructive feedback are made, the community should have a place to voice their concerns and feedback. Staff exist for a reason, and can clean up any posts that go over the top or do not contribute to the discussion.

Those are my two cents for now. Again, I am unfortunately not really active or involved in this community, but this came as a surprise to me as well. I hope the changes moving forward will be for the better.

Matteh said:

i wasn't kidding when i posted what would dave brown think about how you're butchering his work

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dave brown:
>"think"
>"work"

Cindy said:

Lambda and Decepti were both well aware of these plans and have been in the loop for some time.

We definitely fumbled our communication to the wider administration & community in this regard and are doing our best to clarify some poorly worded plans in the original post.

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That's what I'm saying. Outside of five people, who did you talk to about this? Evidently not a lot of the other staff, since they're just as shocked as everyone else at this news. What about the players? The people that actually keep the server alive? Were any of them asked their opinions on your decision? Or at the very least even told such a big decision was being made that wasn't just "we're doing stuff behind the scenes."

I don't think this is just an issue of bad wording. A tiny group of people, who for the most part JUST got their positions, are suddenly dropping a bunch of changes that will completely flip a community that's been going on for ~15+ years on its head. Regardless of the intentions or whether it's actually a good idea or not, you cannot tell me that's not a really bad look.

From what I'm seeing, it's looking less like you guys fumbled your communication and more like you just didn't do any communication at all.

I'm gonna just be real, never let them cook again.

I see where the thought process comes from, but truthfully rebranding TnB isn't going to do anything. Whatever "bad blood" there is, everyone already knows who we are. It changes nothing. As far as hosting a DarkRP server? I mean, sure - that'd be fine; but it's become clear that no-one here really has an interest in that. It'd be different if this was an extra server on the side, but having that be the meat and potatoes of what TnB is even if it's only temporary is NOT a good idea. If you think people aren't playing and engaging now, this will ensure that anyone who's a member here and avoiding TnB will continue to do so. Will this bring in new faces and give a pipeline for new blood? Sure, but at what cost? A lot of people who play DarkRP have absolutely no interest in serious RP and if they do it's going to take a whole lot of teaching and honestly just make the experience worse for everyone involved. Would this be a good idea to have on the side as an additional server? Sure, not my thing; but outright replacing the meat and potatoes of TnB in favor of this is so absolutely jarring I and others actually thought this was a joke. I'm sorry but the people who came into leadership positions and thought this was a good idea HAVE to be trolling. It is a good idea for TnB to branch out into a more "gaming community" overall. I agree with this but the way plan is being presented is really just a bad plan period. I can't put it any other way.
If we're wanting to branch out into being more of an overall gaming community, then it would be a better idea to have this DarkRP "idea" as something on the side, and an addition.
I also have to agree that the fact that no-one here, even the admin team have had no knowledge of this and are shocked. That should be saying a lot. It really sounds like we brought on board a few people from days' past and ushered them into suddenly calling the shots on some very serious things. Their word alone being the law of the land, without any input. This is a BAD idea. This is overall a VERY BAD idea, apart from the expanding and attempting the change the atmosphere here.

You need to stop thinking of Tnb as the gmod roleplay gutter and start thinking of it as the cockroach of the gmod roleplay wasteland with an indefinite lifespan. Do not hide the legacy just own it warts and all. This shit is part of the Mount Rushmore of Videogame filth

Also a forced uprising plot to end a mismanaged server is just so lame. Just shut it down at that point and be done with it. It’s not earned at all.

While Decepti and myself have been in the loop for a few weeks now, I can say we've had limited involvement beyond a few suggestions or comments. I think retroactively it would have been more productive to open the discussion to both admin teams entirely.

I don't see anything wrong with the dark rp, but I did recommend we do something more immediate, and I still do. Putting out news of something this heavy needs some action to show that the community leadership is invested in the current health of the community. As I recommended something as simple as a gammeodes server or an RR could really go a long way.

The name change was probably brought up to me earlier, and I'll be honest I completely missed it then, but if it was then I'm sorry for not speaking out sooner that I do believe the TnB name is historic and should be valued. Even if it's got a bad reputation, changing the name won't do much about it I don't think.

I think the community leaders have their hearts in the right place, and I think moving forward is really as simple as just listening to the community and offering immediate attention to their reaction.

In news of TRP, it's not affected in any way by this. Playtests will be soon, hoping to do something like an arena to get a feel for the gunplay and help us balance it to feel fun and responsive. More word to come.

Has having community managers in gaming ever been a good idea?

You guys do your things. As part of Lambdas group I'm gonna be looking at this from afar, but I still offer an open ear ( whenever I am not at work or sleeping because fuck timezones ) to anyone wanting to chat about this. Might be better than dumping it all in this thread which, who knows how long will stay open anyways.

I can just reaffirm that TRP is not gonna be affected by this, and that we work on some playtests to be released soon much like Lambda said.

Johnston said:

is there a possibility of a willard-esque development team, so we arent reliant on a single person (or at best, a single person and one other person who kind of helps)? seen many times where when a dev leaves, things grind to a halt.

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This would be awesome. Though it's something that comes as a reward for a quality server, with people passionate about it's future stepping up to help contribute.

I believe Nap summed up most peoples feelings fairly well.

As for this:

skylion said:

2) Yes, I understand that the idea of a name change in the future is extremely daunting to some. Taco N Banana is a community most of us here grew up with, and seriously trust me when I say I don't particularly enjoy that there's going to come a day where we don't see it anymore. It's time to face some hard truths though: this community has existed since 2007, and it's not been aging particularly well. A brief look through the forums says all it needs to. It's filled with extreme strife and extreme negativity at just about every corner. Moving on from the name, all of its baggage, and trying our hands with some new things opens many doors for the community that literally wouldn't be possible otherwise.

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I believe this is somewhat incorrect. I don't want to target anyone in specific, especially people I call or have called friends, but the reason this community hasn't been aging well is because of inept server direction and leadership issues. There have been a fair number of new people that come in, either they hadn't heard about TnB at all, or if they had they've been surprised that this community is different than they've been told. Changing out the name isnt gonna bring in the people that already hate TnB, because they'll just figure that out and still think what they want to think. We need to change what they think about it, because of course their opinions arent gonna change because we have done the same thing over and over again, we need to be expanding into other settings, gamemodes, and games even if its just in a small way or for short time periods; and I think that is a great step forward, but these other changes put forth have shackled that one down like an anchor.

I've been playing on a lot of smaller servers and I see what they've done well, but bringing up all of that in this thread isn't the place for it currently. The stigma around TnB is currently like that because we've allowed it to be that way. Just 6 years ago when TRP2 launched, TnB was still highly successful, even through its ups and downs with drama there was still a large number of people who loved it. People have been shit talking TnB for near enough two decades, and all throughout that we've had success. The simple fact of the matter is that we aren't successful because people don't remember how to be successful, as cheesy as that sounds.


Reiterating what Nap said:

Nap said:

it's almost laughable how I constantly see folks who leave and divide the community get rewarded when they come back. Again, no personal feelings there I'm just calling what I see.

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I don't at all mind the people put in as community leadership as creators/writers, I have things I like and dislike about them, but that's besides the point. Them being involved in a server is a fantastic idea, but leadership was not the right choice. If we could simply get a good team together, and (no offense) not put people in leadership positions who have created/brought drama and politics into the community; then just put together something at least different than what TnB has been doing, I think we could actually make a great server. We have had an overabundance of fantastic writers and creators that just need to be done justice and personally spoken to, so they might actually want to do something for TnB.

I have no idea if what I've said will have an impact at all, but I'll be clear: I do not wish to drive away Skyrim, Mox (Cindy), and Tanknut, I want to work with them as they are talented creators in all their own ways.

I don't know, maybe it's because I try not to let things bother me, but I honestly don't believe the server's current situation is caused by toxic members. Of course the toxicity has existed and should absolutely be dealt with firmly, an easy fix to start would be to remove shit like the 'funny', 'zing', or 'gay' reactions to posts (surely there was a reason why the 'dumb' rating was removed).

I think the negative 'image' of TnB is being vastly overexaggerated. If you want a name change for the sake of a name change, sure, but it doesn't really seem like it would help at all and in fact the reason I ended up rejoining here was because of name recognition from back in the day.

I don't have much to say about how to fix seriousRP as I've already voiced my opinions elsewhere and am mostly uninterested in the medium at this point as it just simply consumes an unhealthy amount of my time.

I think most of the reason is the consistent playercount feedback loop that has existed for over a decade at this point. I remember getting off High School and joining an Outlands server to AFK for hours until someone joined. I don't have time nor care to do that anymore and I'm sure most of you all don't either.

I would love to have some other games even something like a Minecraft server or something to play with you guys together. I've not so recently split ways with my closest friend who I used to game with constantly, so y'all filled in that much needed void for me emotionally and I couldn't be more appreciative. I just wish we would stop being so shitty to each other sometimes over dumb disagreements over a text-roleplaying server, life is short.